[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Christine McCormack from Radio Northern Beaches and you've just tuned in to the Listen and Chat with Christine McCormack Podcast. This is the space where we pull no punches, sometimes a little controversial, sometimes downright outrageous and sometimes just packed full of information that is interesting to know. Today we're talking to a songwriter and drummer. I have Andrew Heesman in and now Andrew has written and produced a song which we'll tell you about in a moment.
[00:00:29] And in the studio with us is Wayne Ryan. Hi guys, thanks for coming into Radio Northern Beaches to talk to us. Hi, how are you going? Happy to be here. Great to be back again Chrissy. Let's talk a little bit Andrew about your song. Now you've written a song called She Knows, you've had it produced. Tell us a bit about that. Yeah, so the song went through an interesting process. Firstly I'll just talk about the song, it's a rock pop kind of song.
[00:00:52] It's about a couple who the guy goes away sailing and comes back to his love or to his girlfriend. That's the lyrical kind of arc of the story of the song. And I wrote most of it in 2024. And one of my friends, well now a friend, a contact producer named Andy Sorensen let me know he would be at the Central Coast. And he was going to record an album with some of his mates from the industry. And he said, did you want to be a part of that? And we can record some of your songs.
[00:01:22] So when that opportunity came about I was quite excited. And yeah, eventually a few months went by and it got organised and it happened. We went to Damien Gerard's studios in the Central Coast and had some top session musicians play. It was an amazing day and we got a couple of songs recorded. One of which is She Knows. And you're having that released when? It's been released this week. So I've released it a few days ago and it took some time just to go live online.
[00:01:49] So as of last night it got through all the approvals for Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes, YouTube and YouTube Music along with various other streaming platforms. That's wonderful because that's not an easy task. No, I'll let you know I've tried in the past with less professional recordings that I've made to release something. And it was always just a little side hobby that went kind of kaput like a few years ago.
[00:02:18] And so I learnt the hard way how to release something and how not to release something using what you call an online distributor. So they send the files out to all the various online portals and websites. Yes, so people can listen to them. But you've got to know you've got to have all the registrations right so you can, you know, be reimbursed or anything and be on top of all your social media accounts, things like that. Yeah, it's not easy doing it on your own. So have you listed it with AMRAP? AMRAP. That's perhaps an organisation I haven't heard of. Okay.
[00:02:47] I've heard of APRA AMCOS who I'm a member of and it's registered with them. This is where I keep sort of putting it out there and for any musicians listening, AMRAP is the portal that boasts broadcasters on radio and new releases come into and load. So if you've got a new release, you go into AMRAP, it's free. You load it and all the broadcasters come in and have a look.
[00:03:12] Now, I actually run a show where I take all the latest songs from AMRAP and play them each week. Right. So, and all sorts of broadcasters go in and find the different songs and the new songs are registered up the top every week so we see them. So you need to get on there and register in there. It's not hard and it's free. Wonderful. Okay. That's good. So do that because we want to see you up there and out there with all the broadcasters as well as being online. Yeah, that'd be a great thing to get involved in.
[00:03:42] And that's the only way to sort of get on the radio these days because it used to be that you used to have to send your CD to every radio station. Well, you don't have to do that anymore. AMRAP does that for you on this portal. That sounds good. Get it up there. Yep. So tell me a little bit about the process of doing this song and we'll talk to you a little bit about your band, the band you're involved in.
[00:04:04] But first of all, tell me about the process of actually writing the song and then how you went about emotionally getting it together and then getting to this point. Oh, okay. So I've always written songs as a hobby and then developed it into something more serious over the years. With this song in particular, She Knows, I originally came up with the first part of the chorus back in 2017. And that was the lyric, she knows that when the wind blows, I'll be sailing out to sea.
[00:04:33] And I came up with the chord progression of the chorus at that time and didn't do anything with it. Couldn't think of anything to fit it with. So I just left it on the side, on the shelf, so to speak. And then it was in 2024, sometime later, so it's a bit of a journey for this song. I just revisited the song and played a particular chord which just had a different vibe or tone to it.
[00:04:59] And I matched it with the chorus chords that I'd come up with previously. And I just thought, hmm, there might be something more to this. The lyrics just kind of came in that moment, matched up with the lyric I'd written earlier about sailing. And yeah, all the lyrics came out on that particular day and I just refined it in the days to come. And then I had a song.
[00:05:20] So it was an interesting time when I had taken the song from an initial idea, a small portion of music to a whole, you know, verse bridge, chorus bridge, you know, like a pop song structure. And I ended up getting in touch with my producer contact, Andy Sorensen, who's a really experienced producer in the industry, a few decades in the industry. So he's got a lot of know-how and he'd worked on a few of my instrumentals, mixing them and helping me get them to a point that I could get them into licensing.
[00:05:48] And I let him know that I had a few songs that I would love to get recorded by a band with a vocalist. And I think at that point, he just let me know about this opportunity where he was recording his own stuff, his own music for an album on the Central Coast with some of his really experienced session mates in the industry. And I'll let you know about those session musos in a moment. But when he heard the song, he loved it.
[00:06:13] And we went through a process where I sent him an acoustic demo, which was a bit rough because it was just made in my room on my computer with various, you know, audio interfaces and technology. I sent him that, sent him an idea of what I wanted the song to sound like. We weren't really sure what sound exactly, but it was something along the lines of the Foo Fighters or the Kooks. So like a hard rock sound, but a bit subdued or bit rock kind of sound. And so we went back and forth.
[00:06:38] He took what I made as a rough recording, added some synths, some instruments to it. We came up with a drum beat and kind of refined it that way. And then eventually he found a singer online, believe it or not, and quite a good singer. And we put the vocals down there so that when we went to the studio, the session musicians would have something to play along to. And then, yeah, we went to the studio and they came and did their job and were incredible. So I'd love to tell you about the session musicians in a moment. Please do. Yeah, definitely.
[00:07:07] Yeah, cool. Well, so on that day in Damien Gerard Studios, the guitarist was a gentleman by the name of David Holmes. He's one of the best guitarists in Australia and he's got a lot of experience in a variety of areas. So session musician on stage with people you may have heard of, like Darlene Cech from Hillsong. He's worked with Christine Arnoux and he worked with, of course, with my contact mate Andy. He's done a lot internationally. So Wayne can...
[00:07:34] Well, David actually has a few albums of his own and at one stage there he was considered one of the best guitarists in the world. He went into a world guitar contest. So I'd like to know how he got... How he got behind it. Yeah, definitely. Great musicians, but well done, Andrew. Yeah, it was a coup, I suppose, for someone like myself. You know, I hadn't been in the studio since I was five and my uncle recorded an album. It was very humbling to be able to have these guys who had done so much in the industry to work on some of my songs.
[00:08:02] So we had David Holmes on guitar and he was just an ace with his professionalism and what he brought to the song. We had Mitch Farmer on drums and he's a very experienced session musician. He's played with Dragon, done many things in the industry. Just on Mitch for a second, as a drummer, for me, I play drums. So it was kind of cool to see someone with his professional drum kit, you know, set up in the studio and play the way that he did. It was really cool.
[00:08:27] And then on bass, we had a guy named Jeff Camilleri, who was, again, just, you know, the way he acted in the studio was really cool. He was just really on top of playing the bass. Like, the rhythm section for the song is really good. And coupled with Dave's guitar playing and the singer and everything we had going on in that track. Yeah, it was a really cool experience to be part of it. So, yeah, that's kind of what happened. So now I know why you didn't invite my band to the session work for you.
[00:08:54] Now, I don't know if anybody recognised the name, but Wayne Ryan is also from the band Project 76. Yeah, well, and thank you. Yeah, we've worked together, Andrew and I. Andrew's actually played with Project 76. Correct. And in our studio before. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we're all stable mates. Yeah, and Andrew, you actually belong to a local band called Saltwater Sons. Yes, yes. Saltwater Sons is the band that I'm the drummer for.
[00:09:20] And over the last couple of years, we've been doing gigs up and down the northern beaches. It's been a really enjoyable time for myself. And funnily enough, my dad actually plays keys in Project 76. And sometimes I sit in for the drummer for Project 76. So there's a cool network of musicians between the two bands. Yeah, we love to do gigs, sometimes on the same bill, you know, on the same event. And yeah, Saltwater Sons has been really great. The only thing is they're always surfing. Yeah, it's funny. That's the reason why we have to sit in.
[00:09:50] I think most of us are surfers. And I've actually fronted your band when Jack didn't turn up because he was in Bali. And they called upon me and vice versa. But it's kind of a cool thing, Chrissy, because we just really collaborate together. And we've kind of made a football team. If someone's out of form, we step up next musician. Way to go. That's how the Northern Beaches work, though, isn't it? But it's actually kind of nice. We kind of did that because back in the day, you know, and COVID and all that sort of stuff, when we started Project 76, the studio.
[00:10:18] And of course, several bands are birthed out of that. But we just wanted to keep the process going. And it's nothing worse than, you know, old mate leaves the band and the band's over. It's funny. That's how Andrew and I met, actually. The studio was looking for an extra keyboard player and an extra drummer. We had keyboard players and drums. We just like to keep the stocks high so that everybody stays honest. And we were prayerfully, Steve Hensby from Project 76 Studios and I was going, we need another drummer and another keyboard player. And shall I tell them this is how we met? Yeah, go for it.
[00:10:46] Well, it's a funny one, Chrissy, because I vowed never to ever shop at Audi again because back in the day, they didn't have bags. And no, please stop it. And Andrew was working in Audi a few many years back. And I had to pick up some stuff. And I was down there and there was Woolies, Audi and Coles all close together. And I went, oh, Audi's will do for now. I went, no, no, don't do it. You promise not to do that. But something kind of led to sort of Audi's. And I got in the car. I said, you can't even find the door. It's not easy to find, is it?
[00:11:16] But just something kept compelling me to sort of keep guests going, get your goodies. And so I remember getting my half a dozen items and got to the cash register there. And there was Andrew. And I started complaining to him about bags. That's it. As you do. I wasn't complaining. I wasn't harassing him. I was actually harassing the idea of shopping bags being paid for. I'm old school. And I'm sort of venting away. But he goes, I know you. I went, oh, you do.
[00:11:46] Whoops. Yeah. And he goes, blah, blah, blah. And I went, and then I just, and he talked, you're in the band, blah, whatever. I went, yeah. And so tell me about your life, mate. I just flipped on him. And then he says, I like music. And we kind of, he told me about it, what you were doing. And oh, yeah. At the time, I was getting a website together called TuneTree, which is a licensing website. So I let Wayne know about that and some of my passions with music. And it was a funny conversation. I've got to tell you, like, as he said, he was talking about bags.
[00:12:14] And then next thing we're talking about music and what we both like doing with music. And Wayne mentioned he has a studio. He has some mates who he's in a band with. And I mean, things just went from there. We realized that we both had some similar contacts and friends through church and the community. So we ended up getting together for a few rehearsals. And yeah, it turned out I was a good fit, which was good. My dad came along and joined in too. Yeah, and his dad, you know, was a keyboard player as well.
[00:12:41] So we got another keyboard player in the studio with his dad, Lee. And I said, Lee, have you worked with any other bands before? You know, he's already joined the band. You know, we didn't even know anything about Lee. And he goes, oh, I've worked with ABBA and, you know, and I've worked with Marsha Hines. And we went, oh, OK, perhaps you're good enough for our band. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Well, Dad's really experienced in the industry and with what he's done in the past.
[00:13:10] So it's cool to be welcomed into Project 76 and Saltwater Sons. So it's been a really good experience. A learning curve as well. So, I mean, I've done music my whole life in various forms, like involvement in church or in the past, some community groups, things like that. Some sound events. And for being a part of Saltwater Sons and Project 76 has been really good. And the last couple of years have been amazing.
[00:13:34] So, you know, credit to Wayne for getting that started and getting it off the ground and looking forward to seeing what we can achieve in the next few months. And, yeah. So Saltwater Sons is going to be trying your new song, I presume? Yes. So there are discussions underway just to put together our new set list for the next few gigs. And She Knows is on that list. And it'll be great to perform it. So if you want to hear She Knows live, you know, we'll let you know when we've got our next gig.
[00:14:03] Obviously, we've got band members who love to surf and travel and a few people are away at the moment. But we'll let you know when we've got our gigs lined up. So have you got a website that they can keep an eye on you? So for my website at the moment, I've currently got Instagram for my TuneTree website and toontree.com.au. Say that again. Toontree. As in T-U-N-E. Yep. Toontree. Toontree.com.au. And the Saltwater Sons website? In the works. Okay. Do they have Facebook or Instagram? They do have Facebook, yes.
[00:14:33] Under Saltwater Sons. Okay. So listeners, that's where you look for them. And keep an eye on it because you'll see what gigs are happening around the northern beaches. And also what's happening with the new release of the song. Yes. She Knows. That's right. Look, it's been great talking to you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Chrissy. Thank you, Chrissy. I've been talking to Andrew Heisman and Wayne Ryan. Don't forget to follow, like and share. Stay safe and I'll catch you next time.